User:TheUltamate/Admin Noticeboard/New Rules Discussion

Alright, so. Trollslum Wiki is in dire need of some concrete rules. I've come up with this draft:

So, I'm laying some groundwork here. Most of what I have right now I am fine with, with a few exceptions:


 * A few blood categories I might merge. I might do Brown/Beige, Green/Jade, and Black/White/Gray.
 * Rather than separate categories for Pink, Black, White, Gray, Candy Red, and Other, I might have a huge category for 'Mutant.'
 * Obviously, I want at least some sort of standard for page categorization. Every other wiki has one, except us, because Trollslum Wiki has been pretty much in a state of anarchy for the past while. This system seems fair enough.
 * Banning and vandalism. Right now I'm running on a very low tolerance scheme: one warning, then a one week ban. Beyond that, I've considered permabanning with a chance to appeal, but that seems really harsh.
 * Enforcing the set rules, especially what is, right now, rule eight. I don't really know how to make a fair system of punishing people for being huge wads.
 * Rule three. I'd like a system, and the trolltag system works fine, seeing as it's, for the most part, the law of the land anyway. I'd just want to make sure there's a consensus.
 * Any comments or additions are welcome at this point.

--TheUltamate 18:59, September 14, 2012 (UTC)

The Discussion
Right, replying to things on the previous page:

Dunnedays: derped on the three-five rule there. You don't have to move the session page; I should probably put in a rule okaying pages for sessions, too. Consider that the new Rule Five.

Outhra: The circle of bureaucrats, admins, and rollbacks would be the ones doing the consensus. As for the ones that specifically state community input, I'm expecting at least some growth around here (we're already seeing it now, just from debonairCorsair). We'll cross bridges when we come to them.

Any input on the list below the rules?

--TheUltamate 22:06, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * I was wondering whether that's what you meant by consensus. It seems I was right. I'm really looking forward to watching the growth of this Wiki. It was mostly abandoned before you moved in, and now it's finally starting to pick up!


 * I guess I'd better give my opinion on the rules and bullet pointed list.


 * When it comes to things like blood colours, names, classes and aspects, should there perhaps be a guide or something to show what is allowed, and what isn't, as defined by canonical examples. For example, Andrew Hussie has confirmed there are only 12 possible blood colours (excluding mutations). Additionally, troll names seem to all follow the general rule that 6 letters should occupy both the first and last names. I don't know? Perhaps this isn't really something to follow through on, since it could offend people and make them seem restricted to making clones of Tavros and Nepeta or whatever.


 * The disciplinary procedures seem fair enough. The same system for the vandalism as for the being impolite to others should work. After all, both are intended to cause negative emotions of some form or another. Perhaps all vandals and rabble-rousers are Hands of Tears?


 * I'd been using the names of my trolls as the names of the articles because a) I prioritised the name over the trolltag, and b) it's used on the MSPA Wiki, so it seemed more professional at the time. It's not a problem though. It's a simple matter to simply shift them over to their trolltag pages. I will keep the name pages (such as Eber Magic) because that way I can use them as redirects.


 * Can't really think of anything else to say so... ∞ Dunne Days ∞ Talk  ∞ Blog  23:01, 14th September, 2012 (UTC)
 * Evidently, yes I can think of something else to say.


 * Anyway, I do slightly object to Rule 2. I definitely see where you're coming from with it, as this is the Trollslum Wiki after all. However, there isn't really a corresponding Wiki for those sessions that only include humans. There's the Chumroll Wiki, sure, but it's in very poor condition (even worse than this one) simply due to its emptiness. Furthermore, in Homestuck, the trolls aren't introduced until Act 3 (and even then it's not a formal introduction until Act 5), so the kids are probably much more important to the story (aside from the fact it was the trolls who made the humans' universe in the first place).


 * ∞ Dunne Days ∞ Talk  ∞ Blog  23:27, September 14, 2012 (UTC)


 * See, I don't think anyone takes the only twelve blood color thing seriously. Even you don't in AMWTD. Plus, Nektan has a different blood color from the twelve, anyway. I don't know, it's just a bad rule that sort of takes most of the fun out of making fantrolls. As much as I hate going against canon, I think this is one thing that warrants it.


 * Okay, punishment seems to be taken care of.


 * Hm. I can't say I agree with you. I can plug Chumroll Wiki in the rules and main page, which should help with their situation. Hopefully Outhra can settle this with a majority rule decision, unless he somehow has a completely different opinion.


 * --TheUltamate 03:33, September 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * I am actually following the limitations on blood colours for AMWTD. Eleven of my trolls have from Aradia's colour to Feferi's colour, and the remaining troll (Jernih) has lime green blood. It's mentioned by Andrew that it did, at one point, exist. It's speculated that Karkat would have had lime green blood had he not become a mutant, since Cancer is in between Gemini (Sollux's yellow) and Leo (Nepeta's olive green). You're right that it would impose limitations upon the fun of making trolls, but I don't think that was supposed to be the point of Andrew Hussie saying it. It's more along the lines of rules to standardise the trolls, in a way. I mean, if different blood colours did exist, I'm sure even the scientifically advanced troll minds would have a hard time saying "is this blood the mutant #FF0000 or is it the acceptable #FE0000?"


 * Looking at the Chumroll Wiki again, the last edit was on the 13th April 2011. Unless somebody adopts it, it's highly unlikely it would ever be brought back to life. And even if somebody did adopt it, they'd have to be a really powerful hero of Hope.


 * Plus, if the Chumroll Wiki followed the same sort of rule by putting "Trolls are only allowed if they are a part of a session involving humans", then there'd be the same trolls/humans on each Wiki, making it somewhat redundant. Either keeping Trollslum for the trolls and Chumroll for the kids, or simply having both on here would make a lot more sense. But if Outhra disagrees with me then I'll be sure to drop it. ∞ Dunne Days ∞ Talk  ∞ Blog  16:05, September 15, 2012 (UTC)


 * Okay, I'm really behind on the discussion at this point, but if I can pick up on it: One, the Chumroll wiki is probably going to be dead basically forever. Fantrolls are practically a commodity in Homestuck, while fanhumans are... let's say, put to the side. This wiki is getting traffic not only from the $10,000 troll, but from the links on the forums, random Google hits, etcetera. Chumroll... not so much. I went there for only about five minutes, but let's just say that it can never be revived if it never lived.
 * It has three pages, one of those being the main page, and half of its characters(read: one) use titles that break the one-syllable rule. Maybe if we're being generous, we could absorb the two fanhumans into Trollslum and get Chumroll shut down for being in neglect for over a year, but I don't want to be generous to a Sage of Change and a Duchess of Soul, both of which are treated exactly like trolls down to being given psychic powers. Just no.


 * Two: I think that we could allow fanhumans on the site, but only if there was demand for them, and if they came on they'd need a tag. We want the trolls to have tags for blood color, so the humans should have a "Human" tag if they came on. It's basic, really.
 * If you really want to say "No fanhumans here, everything has to be on Chumroll", it would seem forced, make people irritated, and make Dunnedays's thirty-six-person session even harder to keep track of, since it has both and by that hypothetical rule they'd need to be in constant exchange to properly get information flowing.


 * Three: Troll blood colors aren't arranged by their hex codes. How would that even work? It's a society thing. Lime green, sure, but if its gets to be aquamarine or octarine or something stupid like that, it's culling time. It makes sense, given the way they reproduce. There can be no "pure-blooded" trolls of one color, because the Mother Grub treats everyone's reproductive slurry in one big pool of incestuous goo. If a blue mates with a red, and it mixes in with bits of purple and green and orange, what came out could easily be a yellow and nobody would care, or probably even notice.
 * Hues and shades, but especially shades, seeing what neon blood colors mean, are necessary to keep each blood color from dividing into a separate species. Ergo, if something comes up that's too bright, in Karkat's case, or too dark, as I've seen in easily a dozen fantrolls that by right shouldn't be walking by their fourth perigee, it's got to be removed to keep the species stagnant. It's stabilizing selection, enforced by large scary drones holding sharp objects. Technically, that last bit's fanon, but it's the commonly accepted sort of fanon that might as well be the real thing.


 * Postscript for Dunnedays: If you're holding to strict Hivebent canon as much as you say, technically there shouldn't be any other living troll of Feferi's blood color, since it's been made clear by both implication and outright statements that a tyrian blood color only comes around to predestined rulers of the empire. Fantrolls use colors that they claim are higher than tyrian, like fuchsia or, in some very confused cases, pink, because for some reason, people like making characters that are stronger than the strong character, faster than the fast character, and in this case, being paradoxically closer to royalty than the Condesce herself, let alone her equal-blooded descendant. Not a barb, just a comment. I'm trying to point something out, not insult you.


 * Post-postscript: Sweet mother of chaos, that is a wall of text. I'm going to stop for now.
 * Outhra (talk) 01:58, September 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * By the gods, the text! Next time, try to keep things on-topic, rather than a lengthy tirade regarding hues and shades. And let's please not bicker about canon adherence; most of Planetstuck and S2 and 90% of this website was created before Hussie's announcement, and thus allowed by rule of habeas corpus. Plus, it's whatever. Call it an AU, and anything goes. There, discussion closed.


 * So, looks like I'm outvoted on the issue of allowing fanhumans. From this day forward, any fanhuman will be allowed within the site's welcoming gray embrace.


 * So, I've figured out a new group of blood castes: red, brown/beige, orange, yellow, lime, green/jade, teal/blue, indigo (landdwelling purples), violet (all seadwellers), pink (beyond Tyrian purple, both land and seadwelling), black/white/gray, and other (encompassing anything not previously mentioned, including candy red, rainbow, ultraviolet/infrared, invisible; all things I've seen but can't otherwise be cleanly categorized). It's solid enough as it is right now, but I'm open to tweaking it.


 * I'm running a new rule draft in a text document that I'll post when we come to agreement on these topics here.


 * --TheUltamate 06:26, September 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Twelve hours later I've slept, I'm home from college, and I'm finally able to respond. So let's get cracking. Firstly, Outhra's message.


 * One: I agree with you that the Chumroll Wiki is dead, and that's really all there is to say on the matter.


 * Two: Really it wouldn't have been a problem for me to move my fanhumans over to another Wiki, but I'm really just glad it hasn't had to come to that. I started my own Wiki, just so I'd have a backup place in case anything like that did happen. Plus it helps me keep my guys in one place. I never remember to update it though, so it's kind of pointless.


 * Three: Your comment about blood colours certainly makes sense, given the nature of the "birth" of a troll. But I'm just going by what Andrew Hussie has confirmed (or at least it says he confirmed as such on the MS Paint Adventures Wiki's Hemospectrum page).
 * As for my fuchsia blood, I justify that by saying that AMWTD takes place in a completely separate universe. Or at least, a different time. Maybe this is a time after Feferi herself became the empress and then died or something, I don't know. Really, because of the nature of my fuchsia blood character, it's entirely possible she could have existed, because she doesn't want to be the empress.
 * I also feel I should mention that the canonical 24 trolls were not created through the normal Mother Grub's birthing process. They were created via ectobiology. However, ectobiology might still mean that weird and wonderful neon green and pure black blood colours may be created, I don't know. Where was I going with this again? Just to mention it? Well that seems fairly redundant.


 * That seems to have covered Outhra's spiel. Onto the next!


 * Well, those blood categories seem fine, considering the non-canonical forms of blood colour that this Wiki will be accepting. I really don't think I have much else to add.


 * I apologise if this was overly long. Sometimes lengthy comments are needed in order to properly address all the necessary points. ∞ Dunne Days ∞ Talk  ∞ Blog  17:12, September 17, 2012 (UTC)

Well, we seem to have reached some sort of general consensus on


 * Yep, that seems fine to me! I don't think there are any more points I can raise other than the ones already given. I do hope this isn't the final layout though. It looks kind of messy with the bullet points scattered amongst the numbers. Other than that though, go for it! These seem like perfectly adequate rules! ∞ Dunne Days ∞ Talk  ∞ Blog  22:32, September 17, 2012 (UTC)


 * These seem good. There' s an asterisk to start, and the word "sgreen" is in the green/jade entry, by the way, but I don' t have issues with the rules. Phrasing, maybe. Not the rules themselves, though.
 * Oh, and I have no idea why Dunnedays wrote a long paragraph near the end of his, and then crossed it out. Do I respond to that, or did he decide not to make it valid but still didn't delete it? I never know how that works.
 * Anyway, those rules should be fine, and I'm going to cut myself off before I find a loose end and decide to birth another wall of text.
 * Outhra (talk) 00:29, September 18, 2012 (UTC)
 * That would be because after I hit Publish the first time, I saw where TheUltamate had said "discussion closed", but I'd spent long enough writing my message that I'd formed an emotional attachment towards it. I just decided to strike it through in the end. ∞ Dunne Days <font color="#A1A100" face="Courier New">∞ Talk  <font color="#416600" face="Courier New">∞ Blog  01:38, September 18, 2012 (UTC)


 * Well, other than fixing a few formatting/syntax errors, it looks like these are ready to publish. Soon, I'll be enforcing the category rules on existing pages, once I clear through the mass of tagged images to delete. Rules discussion closed.


 * --TheUltamate 04:53, September 18, 2012 (UTC)